If the tractor drove onto the trailer happily then it didn't suddenly break on the trip home, there is something simple happening here, they are a low compression diesel designed to run on bunker oil and any other flowable crud like tar, I'm with the stuck rack mob.

Nothing like having a hot breath down your neck while trying to start a dead Cat, seems every time I take a running Cat to a local old machinery rally a magneto will decide it's time to die just before the grand parade begins, and before you know it, 50 old fleas are looking over your shoulder sharing their useless opinions as to what the problem probably is, as you pull on that starter handle or cord till your hands bleed, swearing like a trooper!!

You are obviously no dummy, you will have her purring in no time.
Good luck
Mike

Coolant leak: I blocked off the overflow for the radiator and surprisingly no more leak there. I also got in and tightened the nut on the water pump packing and it's not leaking anymore. So I tried starting the main engine and still nothing. Not that I'm surprised or anything.

Pulled the cover off the rack and everything moved back and forth and up and down so nothing is sticking there.

I also took a line off at the injector and with a better cover, I was able to cover the end of the line and it was squirting out. Yes, I kept my fingers away from the spray.

I pulled the rocker cover to triple verify that all of the valves were getting loose and they were. Also, when the cover was off, I had it cranking with compression and it seemed like alot of blowby blowing up around the pushtubes.

Last thing I noticed was that after cranking for a bit with fuel and compression on, #4 exhaust manifold was much warmer than #1. It was 120 compared to 58 F. The block and the head showed the same temperature change but that may just be heat from the starting motor, I don't know.

Cranking speed is another thing I've read about. I wasn't able to get a good reading with my tech tach on the starting or main engine, but I did see about 2700 and 250 RPM which is too slow, so I bumped up the governor but still no joy.

I could pull the injectors, swing them over to the side hooked up and see if they are firing. I think that if I do that and they are firing, we can conclude that it's low compression.

I don’t mind using starting fluid when it’s required. Other than cranking longer under compression with the fuel off, I would move on to the next level. After all it’s almost time for the ether bunny!

That being said, the water jacket and ports into and out if the pony motor are frequently plugged with scale and rust such that the MOSTLY thermosiphon type transfer of coolant between pony and main engines is really slow. The D6 size pony has a water pump to help, but the D2/D4 pony does not. It relies on the small amount of pressure the diesel water pump can create in the rear on the engine plus the natural tendency for hot water to rise.

I’ve spent some hours with the heads off the pony using compressed air, wires, old speedometer/tachometer cables chucked in a drill, pressure washer etc cleaning out the mineralized sediment. It’s really tough to get it all, but you can help it a lot and then do a flush with a strong cleaner to try to get the remaining clogs out of the inaccessible places.

If you pull the injectors you’ll need a special deep socket with a window cut in the side to do it without resorting to a chisel. Many folks have made them out of a cheap socket by cutting it apart and welding in a chunk of pipe/tubing of an appropriate size. Then you trim out a section of the resulting really deep socket so the injection line nipple has room to stick out the side and you can get a little more than 1/12th turn before the socket hits it. You might luck out and find an original socket in the tool box. If you do pull the injectors you probably should take the opportunity to pour in some sort of miracle potion for sticking rings and let them soak a day or so before spinning the engine over to blow out the excess and reinstalling the injectors.

I wonder if it ate a rats nest down the inlet manifold? When old Cats sit for years odd things happen to them, people often remove bits like aircleaners and drop them in the dirt for 20 years till it comes time to sell the "running when parked tractor"........

If #1 cylinder is cold, it could be rings, might be a valve jammed with crud too, it would be interesting to pull the manifolds off just to look see, you could squirt oil into the cylinders to improve compression while they are off.

"ccjersey" wrote:

I don’t mind using starting fluid when it’s required. Other than cranking longer under compression with the fuel off, I would move on to the next level. After all it’s almost time for the ether bunny!

That being said, the water jacket and ports into and out if the pony motor are frequently plugged with scale and rust such that the MOSTLY thermosiphon type transfer of coolant between pony and main engines is really slow. The D6 size pony has a water pump to help, but the D2/D4 pony does not. It relies on the small amount of pressure the diesel water pump can create in the rear on the engine plus the natural tendency for hot water to rise.

I’ve spent some hours with the heads off the pony using compressed air, wires, old speedometer/tachometer cables chucked in a drill, pressure washer etc cleaning out the mineralized sediment. It’s really tough to get it all, but you can help it a lot and then do a flush with a strong cleaner to try to get the remaining clogs out of the inaccessible places.

If you pull the injectors you’ll need a special deep socket with a window cut in the side to do it without resorting to a chisel. Many folks have made them out of a cheap socket by cutting it apart and welding in a chunk of pipe/tubing of an appropriate size. Then you trim out a section of the resulting really deep socket so the injection line nipple has room to stick out the side and you can get a little more than 1/12th turn before the socket hits it. You might luck out and find an original socket in the tool box. If you do pull the injectors you probably should take the opportunity to pour in some sort of miracle potion for sticking rings and let them soak a day or so before spinning the engine over to blow out the excess and reinstalling the injectors.

I've seen how that socket is made and I was going to measure how tall it all needed to be but forgot.

I really want to pull the injectors before I call it low compression. I may get lucky and see that they are not popping.

"Mike wrote:

I wonder if it ate a rats nest down the inlet manifold? When old Cats sit for years odd things happen to them, people often remove bits like aircleaners and drop them in the dirt for 20 years till it comes time to sell the "running when parked tractor"........

If #1 cylinder is cold, it could be rings, might be a valve jammed with crud too, it would be interesting to pull the manifolds off just to look see, you could squirt oil into the cylinders to improve compression while they are off.

Pulling the manifolds is something I have considered. I may keep it on the list, but I'm assuming we would need gaskets, so I'm hesitant at this point.

"Mike wrote:

If the tractor drove onto the trailer happily then it didn't suddenly break on the trip home, there is something simple happening here, they are a low compression diesel designed to run on bunker oil and any other flowable crud like tar, I'm with the stuck rack mob.

Nothing like having a hot breath down your neck while trying to start a dead Cat, seems every time I take a running Cat to a local old machinery rally a magneto will decide it's time to die just before the grand parade begins, and before you know it, 50 old fleas are looking over your shoulder sharing their useless opinions as to what the problem probably is, as you pull on that starter handle or cord till your hands bleed, swearing like a trooper!!

You are obviously no dummy, you will have her purring in no time.
Good luck
Mike

Mike, I keep going back to the running/not running thing too. The rack is free, and I could see that sticking unfortunately when shut down on the trailer, or even injectors not working. But low compression? That didn't happen on the road trip.

Of course, I'm just taking his word for how it ran beforehand, so there's that.

If you are unlucky and can't re-use the manifold gaskets with some Permatex Aviation Gasket Sealer, the original part number is 4B3551 which updates to 2F4541, all 5 are the same part number, inlet and exhaust, your local Cat Dealer should be able to get them, I can get them here in Oz, cost is about $US7 each, look on Machinery Trader for more supply options, I see Florin Tractor Parts in Ca is showing 5 available.

Slap some Permatex on the inlet gaskets just for a test run once you have pulled the rats nest out of #1.

Here are some photo's of the tool I used on my D4 7J and 2T injectors, I'm not sure if the same one is used on the D2, someone will chime in smarter than me and let us know.

Different part number for the D2 injector removal tool, 4B9917, but it looks like it might be the same as the D4 tool, Florin has them.