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D4 pony is acting like a dog

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3 years 10 months ago #223517 by kittyman1

Hello , I operated many D4 , D6 D7 and D8 in the sixties and seventies . I found out that cold starting was often a problem . In many cases the starting engine was hardly powerfull enough to overturn the main . That problem was solved on a day when a collegue poured in ( by accident) gas with a higher octane value . From that moment on I always used super gas in these engines with low temparatures . On the D6C the result was incredibly good . I cannot explain why these engines ran better with a gas of a higher octane value , they are side valve engines and normally they do not need that gas because of a low compression ratio . You can always have a try , no cure no pay ! Succes , the Netherlands , johan7


Thank you Johan for your input. I do run premium 91 octane in all my gas motors around here because they usually see infrequent use and the ethanol in the lower grade fuels absorbs moisture and degrades quicker. I tried the pony yesterday afternoon. It was just at freezing temp 0c and it kicked at two pulls and ran at four. Not bad. Not like the one pull it was before but I can live with it. There other two problems that now exist are that the pony is weak on power and also the over enter pony drive clutch pops out even though I tightened it up as much as could without it being a full on two handed affair to lever the clutch over. Now I'm afraid I might be pulling thr pony drive, which means draining the coolant and lifting the pony off its base. Not the time I wanted to get into that.


-low compression gasoline engines (under 9:1) do not require additional octane, there is no benefit...(regular No Lead gasoline in Canada is 87 Octane) if it seems to run/start better, something else is amiss...fuel mixture, spark timing etc....
-a wintertime trick refineries use in Canada is adding Butane...the lighter mixture helps cold starting....but the consumer loses BTU..Butane is also a trick to increase Octane...
-the higher grade gasolines are usually less density...less BTU...and could throw off the fuel mixture as well...so in most cases would require extra fuel to compensate..

Greatest Lie told to mankind: just give us 2 weeks to flatten the curve!

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3 years 10 months ago #223526 by neil
Replied by neil on topic D4 pony is acting like a dog
From what you've described, the options for the low power are (please add any missed):
- insufficient fuel at rated rpm (which needs to be 3000 by the way - please check that high idle is that)
- governor not opening the throttle butterfly to fully open when under power and not maintaining rpm
- insufficient air
- insufficient exhaust
- inadequate spark at rated rpm with correct fuel-air mixture
- mechanical binding "robbing" power

I believe you've checked spark by using new plugs, wires, and swapped out the mag for a known good one. The carb has been checked/cleaned - we don't know for sure if adequate fuel is being vaporized so a useful check would be to swap in a known good carb that makes good power. The air can be checked using the blower test through the top cover manifold and out each inlet valve in turn, and then leaving the intake pipe disconnected from the carb. The exhaust can be checked with the blower test similar to the intake - manifold should be clear and flow easily. My tractor's was a bit choked up with crud but I saw that before I ran the engine in anger so don't know how much of a difference it made. Binding can be checked by hand but maybe there's a better way? Governor can be checked under load with the intake removed from the carb to ascertain that the butterfly is able to fully open
After that, there's really not a lot of options. I'm leaning to insufficient fuel, weak spark at rpm, or suffocating either intake or exhaust, but that's just a wager.

Cheers,
Neil

Pittsford, NY
The following user(s) said Thank You: Mangoman

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3 years 10 months ago #223528 by Mangoman
Yes Neil that is about what it boils down to. I've checked compression and I think it was around 50 with a couple tugs which I gather is fine. I havent checked the flow through the valves but could do that sometime here. I also now have an issue with the pony over center clutch which keeps kicking out and I cant adjust it tighter without needing to snipe it so obviously something is amiss. I'm planning on pulling the pony drive maybe starting later today. One thing about the carb that I have not done is run a brush through the passages in the throttle body side. The bowl side yes but not the other side. Wondering how does the vertical passage on the left play into high speed full load operation? I'm thinking to drill out the plugs and run a brush through anything I can get my hands on. I should have looked into this earlier but I always think about the bowl side and that seems to be what everyone talks about on here.
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3 years 10 months ago - 3 years 10 months ago #223536 by D4Jim
Replied by D4Jim on topic D4 pony is acting like a dog
The left part of the carb is the idle part. See idle page below. I tried to make a PDF of several pages but it was 27 meg and the forum will not accept it.
The top part of the page gives the operation of the high speed section from the previous posted photo above.


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Last edit: 3 years 10 months ago by D4Jim.
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3 years 10 months ago #223551 by neil
Replied by neil on topic D4 pony is acting like a dog
As Jim wrote, left side passage is idle circuit. This is sometimes a bugbear for folks whose ponies don't idle well. Very easy to rectify but if yours idles well, no issue there. You can see the flow from the main jet, across the bottom of the bowl, up through the compensator, and out the main discharge tube. When you run the pony with the intake pipe off and full throttle, you should be able to see some atomization

Cheers,
Neil

Pittsford, NY
The following user(s) said Thank You: Mangoman

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