Hi Lachlan, you make it sound like something my next door neighbor Geoff could with his vertical mill, he's a very clever Fitter and Turner but never done any engine work that I'm aware of, I was just leery of the project going pear shaped if I got him involved, those Cat Thirty cylinders have a very thin section at the base that only looks about 1/4" thick and is a couple of inches high, not a lot of metal there to cut a ledge to support the new liner.

My other cylinders that have been re-sleeved a million years ago and flogged those sleeves out were bored right through the whole 13.5", and a couple of those look like they were starting to drag the liners down, I've been told to simply glue the new liners in with a proper Loctite type glue, but I assume there is a interference fit required, as you say the supplier will no doubt have a spec. , I contacted Engines Australia last year, they sell new sleeves, I reckon they were around $60 each.
All the best
Mike

Hi Team,
I have heard of people using two shorter sections of sleeve to make up the distance. I would think that the bottom sleeve section would be shorter than the top as the piston ring loadings on the power stroke would be much less by the time they got to the joint area.

Sleeves are usually semi-finished and honed to size after pressing in.

A lip at the bottom of the cylinder sleeve bore is definitely necessary-- I had a 17A pony engine here that had sucked the sleeve down into the crankcase after the sleeve moved due to a likely low interference fit--the con-rod did a good job of smashing it up, so it is important to have an interference fit--there are industry standards for this--way back Loctite told us at a product session that using their product eliminates air voids between the sleeve and block--better heat transfer?

Also have seen 2 x 5 Ton blocks basically ruined by boring for a sleeve and not centering the boring bar to the unworn lower section of the bores--bores usually wear off towards one side--piston thrust side of the block.

Off centre boring basically left a 1/16" step on one side and an equal depression on the other that would catch the piston and lower piston ring after removing the protruding ridge/step--depression side ???--sorry about that!
On most of these old girls the lower piston ring often comes to within a 1/2" or so of the lower end of the bore--lower rings then had to be left out, but still not a good outcome for Dollars expended on a, down here, rare machine.

Cheers,
Eddie B.

Interesting discussion Eddie, as you know those lower sections of the Thirty cylinders are very thin, less than 1/4" I just measured, and they are 4" long, I just don't see how a ledge can be safely cut in those lower bores to carry the potential down thrust of the liners.

I'm 99% certain the cylinders I have here that have been sleeved previously, have the shorter section at the top of the cylinder, as the top ring of the pistons only seem to come within 2" of the top of the cylinder, if that makes sense, there is a big combustion area, so there is the potential to repeat that I wonder?

I was looking on youtube the other night and a guy was re-sleeving Harley Davidson cylinders, sounded like he had done a lot of them, he said he used a tapered pin in that lower cylinder area to help retain the new sleeve.
All the best
Mike

Here are some pics of the Thirty cylinder and it's very thin lower section, can you see the join of the sleeves at the top?

One set of cylinders I have appear to have dragged the sleeves down about 1/4", I do not intend using them at this stage, luckily I have 2 other sets to work with.
Regards
Mike

Boring the cylinder straight through and boring it leaving a ledge at the bottom will require cutting it to the same diameter. Not sure if there’s any downside to leaving the ledge.

Only other possibility I can think of is to bore the stronger upper part of the cylinder jug for a shorter sleeve and try to make a smooth transition to the relatively unworn original lower section of the cylinder. Seems too much trouble and potential problems trying to avoid what is apparently not a problem. You have some that were sleeved long ago and survived to need redone now.

I heard of lots of problems with the Ford Dorset diesels of 50 years ago?? pulling down sleeves when used in NewHolland combines. That was a factory design inserting special hard alloy sleeves in the standard parent bore block in an attempt to make a long lasting, high horsepower turbocharged engine. The fit and the retaining compound were the only things holding the sleeves in place as they were pressed into a standard bored block with no ledges.

Story was, during the first harvest season, there were no spare engines available in North America because of the failure rate.

Melling makes a sleeve for 4.750 bore, 3/32 wall by 14 inches long, part # CSL465 When my engine builder did my 30 years ago the jugs were bored to approximately 1/2 in of the bottom to form a ledge. Bore was set for about .002 interference fit. The sleeves were frozen and dropped in. Rebored or honed to size.
This is what we have done for years with no issues.

Thanks for your input Herb and Jim, always good to hear real life experiences, I contacted Melling about 18 months ago and discussed those longer liners, from memory they were around $US105 each, plus freight, and I was terrified if I bought them, they would be put on the bottom of the pallet all the way to Oz and look like pancakes when I unpacked them, exchange rates are shocking right now, so it would cost at least $Australian to buy those Melling liners and ship them.

Herb, can you please confirm that the top compression ring in the Thirty actually finishes at least 2" from the top of the bore.
Many thanks
Mike

Mike, I can't help on the top ring. If I remember there a large volume in the cylinder as the cylinder head is flat. Please correct me if I am off here. There are other pics in this post that show where rings were stuck, maybe what you are looking for.

"Mike wrote:

Thanks for your input Herb and Jim, always good to hear real life experiences, I contacted Melling about 18 months ago and discussed those longer liners, from memory they were around $US105 each, plus freight, and I was terrified if I bought them, they would be put on the bottom of the pallet all the way to Oz and look like pancakes when I unpacked them, exchange rates are shocking right now, so it would cost at least $Australian to buy those Melling liners and ship them.

Herb, can you please confirm that the top compression ring in the Thirty actually finishes at least 2" from the top of the bore.
Many thanks
Mike

#1 piston sitting at TDC

Thankyou Bmr, it looks like you cylinder has been sleeved, I wonder how that one was done, bored all the way through and a interference fit holding it in place, or ledge cut.
Thanks
Mike