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1937 RD4 Pony Motor starting issues

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4 years 4 months ago #216635 by Jake1991
I completely agree. I have cleaned the carb out, but not fully rebuilt it, as I did not have a rebuild kit at the time. I do not usually use the carb while trying to get it to fire due to not knowing fully its condition. I have just been using a little starting fluid down the intake, or a little gas. And when I say a little, I mean like half a tablespoon at MOST. The few times I got that large amount, was when I was trying to use the carb, which leads me to believe that you are correct in thinking that long term I will nee to address the possibility of a float issue in the carb.

I see on your list Stephen that you own a RD4 4G possibly? If so, can you tell me how your magneto is timed? I understand that it requires removing the engine hood, and I understand if you don't want to. I am just really wanting to make sure that I have the ignition timing correct since that is such a critical part. I am hopefully going to be able to go look at a old D2 here in the next few days that has the same pony on it that runs, and I'm hoping the owner will let me do a little bit of investigation/testing to compare the two when in comes to how it is timed, compression numbers, ect.

Thank you

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4 years 4 months ago #216637 by neil
Definitely worth getting the carb and ignition in order Jake, because once they are, they're easy to keep in good order, and starting is so easy you'd wonder why you left it so long : ) My 5U starts easily in any kind of weather (NY - dry cold-ish winter, hot humid summer) and is never a problem. I must get a video one day of how well it runs.

Cheers,
Neil

Pittsford, NY

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4 years 4 months ago #216654 by ccjersey
Valves rocking refers to the closing of the exhaust and opening of intake at TDC of exhaust stroke. Almost always fairly symmetrically timed in relation to piston TDC.

I wonder if your magneto might be configured for the wrong rotation or something odd.

D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time:D

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4 years 4 months ago #216681 by Jake1991
Thank you for the explanation of valve rock ccjersey. The valves are opening and closing at the correct times in the correct sequence. I am not sure on the magneto rotation. I did check, and the mag is rotating counter-clockwise, and does have a left hand rotor in it. Oldcroak seemed to think that was the correct setup, or at least that is what I understood from him.

Update from today.

So as I stated earlier, last night, I timed the magneto per the instruction I found in a book, and still had nothing. The book says that the ignition should occur about 25 degrees before TDC. Seems a little advanced to me, but its what the book calls for. Anyways, I talked with oldcroak today, and he suggested to me that I get new solid core wires, and some non-resistance spark plugs, (Autolite 3116.) I replaced all of that, along with changing the oil as was suggested by bmr, due to the level being a little on the high side. Still no go.

So I took the head off of #1 cylinder, and shot slow motion video of the engine turning over at high speed via my other little gas engine to see when the ignition event was happening. Watching the video, it appeared to be firing just after TDC on the compression stroke. So I advanced the timing/magneto one tooth to make the ignition event happen a little sooner. I shot another video, and it appeared to be firing right at TDC compression, if not a little before. I put it all back together, and still nothing. Not even a pop.

At this point, I think I am going to see if I can find a inline spark checker that does not have suppression spark plug wires on it, and see if I can get it to spark while everything is put together. I know I am getting spark, and it is occurring at the proper time, or at least close enough that the motor should be doing something. If anyone has anything they would like to build on, I would be more than happy to hear it. If you would like to see the video of the motor turning over, let me know. I may try to upload it to youtube, or I could possibly text it to you if you like.

Thank you to all so far for your help.

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4 years 4 months ago #216682 by Mike Meyer
If you have fuel in the cylinder, even a mistimed spark will give you a pop or a kick back every now and then, you have plenty of compression. I've seen a lot of folks pour raw gas into a pilot motor spark plug hole, screw the plugs back in, and the motor roars into life.

These motors are so basic, even compression as low as 25 pounds will see them fire up, having the exact right spark wire and plugs makes it all easier, but even having them spark past top dead center should still give you a pop with a puff of smoke. There is something just not right here and I can't help feeling it is fuel related.
Mike

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4 years 4 months ago #216683 by Mike Meyer
The fact you are not getting a pop out of either cylinder suggests a simple cause, even with the wrong plugs and wrong wires they will still pop and misfire. When you are timing the magneto, are you are using the cylinder nearest the pilot pinion latches as #1?.

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4 years 4 months ago #216686 by Jake1991
If by pilot pinion latches, you must mean the pony motor controls and the levers to engage the pony to the main diesel, then yes. If you are sitting in the operators seat, it would be the cylinder on the left side of the machine.

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4 years 4 months ago #216702 by STEPHEN
Jake, I sent you a PM

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4 years 4 months ago #216704 by STEPHEN
Do you have the correct mag cap fitted? It should be a RC-2H. The RC-2Q cap will physically fit it, but the brushes are in the wrong places.

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4 years 4 months ago #216726 by Jake1991
Stephen. Yes, it is a RC-2H cap with a left hand rotor. The brushes inside the cap are in great shape, and the rotor is in good shape also.

Mike Meyer. I would normally agree with the fuel comment, but I have done just about everything fuel wise. With the fuel to the carb off, and the cylinders dry, I have tried starting fluid down the intake, a little bit of gas down the intake, and even gas down the spark plug hole. I did try it with the actual carb a few times also. Nothing ever so much as a hiccup. I know what you are talking about, because I have started/tested many a small engines before like you are talking about, and they will always fire. This one won't do a thing.

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