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1937 RD4 Pony Motor starting issues

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4 years 4 months ago #216549 by rax200
Replied by rax200 on topic Privite Message
Hi jake1991,

I have sent you a privite message about the books

Regards

Daryl

1937 RD4 4G4368
1940 D4 7J3717
1942 D4 7J9915SP
1942 R4 6G2550SP
1944 D4 2T6584SP
1945 D4 2T8978SP
1946 D4 5T6271
1956 D4 7U37855
1954 DH226 S/N 89 Howard Tug

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4 years 4 months ago #216553 by ccjersey
oldcroak.com/rc-magneto-instructions/
Link to Eiseman magneto book....check the model number

D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time:D

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4 years 4 months ago #216564 by GrantJ
Amazing amount of info on the "OLD CROAK" web site. I just had them rebuild my mag from my 22. Good company. Grant.

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4 years 4 months ago #216601 by Jake1991
Thank you for everyone who has replied. Rax, I will be looking at your message as soon as I am done with this. Ccjersey, that website link does have a lot of info. I will be going over that carefully to see if there is anything I am missing. Grant, what did it cost to have them rebuild your magneto if you don't mind me asking?

Update from today:

I took the magneto back off and took it in to the local electrical guy. For anyone ever in the Western Washington/Grays Harbor area, Finn Electric in Aberdeen is FANTASTIC. He looked it over, cleaned the points up REALLY good, (better than I have ever seen,) and got the magneto throwing a much better spark. He gave me the insight that if you have 10mm of spark jump outside the cylinder, you should have 1mm of capability inside the compression chamber, (due to compression and the air/fuel mix.)

I found a way in a borrowed manual to time the mag that makes sense. There is a "Cylinder One" spark timing mark under a cover on the magneto that you line up with a mark on the rotating assembly inside the magneto. You then get Cylinder One coming up on TDC compression, and line up the Mag mark on the front pulley with the mark on the case. That should time the magneto.

Conclusion, still won't run. Not even a cough or sputter. I am completely open to any and all ideas.

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4 years 4 months ago #216602 by edb
Replied by edb on topic This One Should Be It.
Hi Jake,
looking further down the linked page I find this one that I have linked--I believe it is an original and will have the Eisemann data in it.
Oldcroak Magneto's, as mentioned above, has what you need as well.
The SRB you linked is good with all the early serial numbers but I cannot say what is in it as I had not seen that publication before--likely put out to save inventory on many books.

www.ebay.com/itm/CAT-CATERPILLAR-D4-CRAW...047675.c100005.m1851

Cheers,
Eddie B.

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4 years 4 months ago #216604 by Jake1991
Thank you Eddie. I am on Oldcroak's website right now. They are only like a 2 hour drive from me. I don't think I ever get that lucky. lol. I am going to contact them if I can not figure anything else out on my own, and see what they have to say. Might be worth paying a few buck to have them at least look it over and see if they see anything out of the ordinary with it.

IF ANYONE HAS A WORKING EISEMAN RC-2H OR RC-2Q MAGNETO THAT IS CURRENTLY INSTALLED ON A RD2/4, IT WOULD BE AWSOME IF YOU COULD TAKE THE COVER PLATE AND THE ROTOR OFF, AND TURN THE MOTOR OVER SLOWLY BY HAND WITH THE ROTATION STARTING WITH THE #1 CYLINDER AT TDC COMPRESSION. IF YOU HAVE THIS, AND ARE WILLING TO HELP, PLEASE PM ME, AND WE CAN WORK OUT THE DETAILS. THANK YOU

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4 years 4 months ago #216619 by Jake1991
Has anyone ever had intermittent problems with the solid core spark plug wires?

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4 years 4 months ago #216621 by ccjersey
I know you’re chasing a spark problem, but do you ever get much gas out of the cylinder head petcocks? I was amazed how wet the mixture from my pony used to be. Seems like you would get something on starting fluid or gas squirted in the spark plug holes but who knows how much is enough.

How fast does your starter motor turn the pony? Is the compression reading of 90 from more than 3 compression strokes?

When you had the head off the pony, did the valves seem to be timed with the crankshaft? For example the valves “rocking” with exhaust closing and intake opening at TDC?

Have you bought new plugs to try? Or at least put gasoline on them and burn it off till it goes out.

D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time:D

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4 years 4 months ago #216629 by Jake1991
So for the petcocks. I have opened them up after trying, and anywhere from a teaspoon to almost a tablespoon of liquid has ran out at times. I have tried everything, from starting fluid in the intake, gasoline in the intake, gasoline in the plug holes, and using the carburetor.

The starting motor I have rigged up wings it over pretty darn fast. WAY faster then I can rope pull it, and a gentleman that stopped by the other day that has a pony start engine says that the little motor is turning it over faster then his electric motor setup turns his over. I'm trying to get a time worked out that I can go over and look at his to compare the two ponys. I don't know how far he will let me dig into his though, as far as taking the hood off the cat so I can look to see how his mag is timed.

The 90psi of compression comes on the 3rd compression stroke, and then holds there from there on after. The first compression stroke is about 82psi, the second 86psi, then the 90psi there on out.

I have had both cylinder heads off, and made sure that the the valves are cycling at the proper times with the cylinder motion. Intake valve opening on the piston's intake down stroke, then closing as the piston starts back, everything closed for the compression (up) stroke, and power (down) stroke, and the exhaust valve opening at the bottom of the compression stoke, and closed again at the beginning of the intake stroke again. I am not sure what you mean by "rocking" at top dead center (TDC) though. Could you please explain more?

The plugs are new/never been in a running motor. I have burned gas off of them, burned over them with a hand held propane torch, sanded the electrodes shiny clean, and set the gap. One thing that I do not know, is if they are the correct plug. The pony had two different plugs in it when I purchased it, and neither plug is very long. When the cylinder head is off with the plug in it, the plug does not even protrude all the way out of the plug hole on the inside of the head. I do believe it is a NGK AB-6. I went to the local auto parts store yesterday to see if they could cross reference the plug to a longer plug to get the electrode further down into the combustion chamber, (even though I know that it should be in there far enough now,) but I am just trying everything possible at this point.

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4 years 4 months ago #216632 by STEPHEN
Jake, is it possible that the engine is flooding? Shouldn't be getting that much gas from the petcock unless you are using the choke too long. If I flood one, I turn it over with the petcocks open until it gets dry. If your float is leaking by, try just cracking the valve only for a few seconds to fill the bowl, then only open it it fires. Once in a while my carb acts up & floods before I can get the flywheel turning and that's what I do to get past it.

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