just wondering if there's better/different options available for pony motors nowadays...(besides 24volt)

-i know there's guys that would never stray from original...and that's okay...but that's my most recent brainfart....what if...

12 volt starter!

Buy a newer dozer not an antique with factory electric start and an operation and service manual, problem solved.

my dozer has the 24Volt system, with glow plugs and starts very well so i was thinking of the other unfortunate souls not so blessed...

-it seems most Pony engines have a terrible, abused life.. nothing like some preventive maintenance

-i suppose switching to a 12 or 24 volt system is the way to go..

Some owners just don't understand how a Cat starting engine works and how it should be maintained and operated and know the starting procedure, sure there welcome to come here and ask questions, were glad to help, but don't just go get an old tractor and think well if runs that's all that matters. When you get an old machine find an operation and maintenance manual and parts book for it, they are the complete guide to understanding things about the machine and will save allot of frustration down the road. If you don't want the hassle with an old machine then find a newer machine or hire a contractor to do the job. I see so many do it yourselfers taking out a fence row or clearing a lot only hear that gee I had limb go through the radiator or they busted the blade brace or tree smashed the hood and broke the glass in the cab, well ok but sorry about your luck.
Anyway your welcome to do whatever you like or how much you want spend its your roll of the dice.

MY dozer is apparently too old for glow plugs without doing some serious modding.

I think there are some screws on the side of the cylinder head that help cinch the pre-combustion chambers in place. I have wondered if a person could remove that screw and drill through the pre-combustion chamber and thread it to hold a glow plug. Just, it may be a bit of a problem to re-align the drilled hole if the pre-combustion chambers needed removed and re-installed for some reason.

There are also block heaters that heat up the radiator fluid to help generate heat for starting. Though I think the block heaters don't exactly heat very fast. With the exception of glow plugs or ether, I think a pony is generally the fastest way to get the engine started in the coldest of conditions. Probably 5-10 minutes.

I think part of the reason ponys tend to be most beat up is the fact that there is no starting engine for the starting engine. The pony basically starts working cold and then warms up and gets all the fluids flowing at start, while the diesel gets to enjoy having the pony doing all the work to get him ready to run.

I do kind of wonder what the engine life is of a pony start diesel over the more modern electric start diesels are that never had a pony. I believe the most wear comes on an engine when it is cold, so many diesel engines without a pony are basically starting cold and running cold for a little while.

Modern Oils have pretty much eliminated "Cold Start Wear"?
BUT also the few minutes that some guys take to let the diesel and its mechanical parts warm up before loading adds greatly to the life!

"BigAgCat" wrote:

MY dozer is apparently too old for glow plugs without doing some serious modding.

I think there are some screws on the side of the cylinder head that help cinch the pre-combustion chambers in place. I have wondered if a person could remove that screw and drill through the pre-combustion chamber and thread it to hold a glow plug. Just, it may be a bit of a problem to re-align the drilled hole if the pre-combustion chambers needed removed and re-installed for some reason.

There are also block heaters that heat up the radiator fluid to help generate heat for starting. Though I think the block heaters don't exactly heat very fast. With the exception of glow plugs or ether, I think a pony is generally the fastest way to get the engine started in the coldest of conditions. Probably 5-10 minutes.

I think part of the reason ponys tend to be most beat up is the fact that there is no starting engine for the starting engine. The pony basically starts working cold and then warms up and gets all the fluids flowing at start, while the diesel gets to enjoy having the pony doing all the work to get him ready to run.

I do kind of wonder what the engine life is of a pony start diesel over the more modern electric start diesels are that never had a pony. I believe the most wear comes on an engine when it is cold, so many diesel engines without a pony are basically starting cold and running cold for a little while.

if you need cold start in an old cat or any diesel without glow plugs all you need is a flame start. new holland tractors use them and so does some of the older ford backhoe and my case skid steer has one on a cummins 4bt. they work flawlessly and are cheap. available as 12 or 24 volt.

Thermo-start is what I’ve always heard them called. You could use the same circuit as the glow plug relay on a more modern CAT....turn switch left to heat the element in the thermo-start and it turns on the fuel when it heats up enough to ignite it. I’ve taken off enough stuff to watch one light in my little JD/Yanmar lawn tractor.

On the other hand it might be easier to install a grid heater in the intake like the Dodge pickups using the 5.9 Cummins use.

I am not sure where to find a thermo-start or flame-start.

Grid heater...I have wondered if a hair dryer or heat gun might work. Though, I don't know how long either of those devices would have to be powered to heat enough to start the diesel. My 24v starter setup can probably crank the diesel for about 15-20 minutes before the batteries are too low. It could only reduce my battery life down to 5 minutes of cranking otherwise I probably wouldn't be able to get the diesel started. I estimate that with pony heat, it takes around 5 minutes of cranking of the diesel to get started with the pony having run for a minute or two before I start cranking the diesel.

Or maybe I underestimate the power of a heater in the intake? Maybe an intake heater can heat hotter and quicker than the pony?