Rome wrote:

The transmission cooler just has engine coolant and the trans oil going through it, the engine oil cooler is separate, behind the water pump.

The waterpump seems to be all connected with some sort of vertical cooler, than a long barrel cooler running horizontal down where it would be fantastic fun to remove.  It is really hard to figure out what is what.  I have service and parts books but they don't show much of this.  

I guess when it went back to dealer, they pulled an oil sample and there was no notes of coolant being in the oil, only metallics.  

What confuses me is ANY mechanic working on this type of stuff would know what water does to oil, so it should have been obvious!  Sort of makes me wonder what all happened but I just can't condone beating on a machine that is known to already have a problem, potentially making small problems into big ones.  

Rome wrote:

There should be trans oil in the cooling system too, after you replace the cooler flush the engine cooling system with water and a non sudsing soap, Bon-Ami. The trans/strg clutch compartments can be cleaned by just adding a "cheap" 30W drivetrain oil and operating it and then let sit overnight and drain off the coolant then run again and change oil and repeat till you have clear not milky oil.

Here is a question I am trying to answer right now.  We know the trans is contaminated.  Potentially is eating itself.  It seems plausible that the pump could not deliver oil due to the inlet being so plugged, but that is a gamble.  However, I believe the TC also pulls oil from the trans?  If the TC is toast again, I will probably need to walk away.  I can do many complex repairs inhouse, but I can't build a TC.  

So I am trying to figure out if there will be any way to see if it is damaged.  I thought it had it's own pump?  I tend to wonder if the previous TC was damaged due to lack of oil.  They obviously ran this machine with known low trans pressure.  That is not real smart.  Just hoping the heritage of CAT shines through here as being over built.  

 

it should show in the parts book whether it has a separate pump for the torque converter. yes some of these diagrams are clear as mud. especially if you have a poor copy or a book in poor condition.

Yes there is a scavenge/ circulating pump on the converter. There is also two magnetic screen filters, one under the trans/strg clutch pump and one under/near the water pump.

I was able to get the other strainer pulled before I ran out of light. I confirmed a little green water sitting in the housing. Otherwise oil is black. As well, I confirmed coolant in the RH final. It was oddly sitting towards the top. No clue how much. So screwed there as well.

Added a pic of the filter screens.  The one near the waterpump is in much better shape, but still not good.  The trans pump filter inside appears to have several particles of a reddish material.  Probably all pointless as the trans certainly has to be opened.  

Are we looking at a nightmare here?  How does the trans send power to the finals?  I am just guessing a ring gear driven by a pinion and a shaft with spines on both ends?  I am curious how you would even get that out?  

So....we have cross shaft bearings that were 'just' replaced, and seems already hammered.  

Can this stuff be worked on in the machine or pull trans?  From the invoices, it does not appear they removed the trans.  I have concerns of Oring damage if there is metal in everything.  

Powers of the Inet!  Found a video if this.  It appears this is certainly a trans pull?  Pinion gear is just on back of trans.  It does not look fun to set without damage.  But I am probably more confused on the ring gear section.  Is this a separate discrete compartment?  It seems oil should leak there before going to a final?  

 

OOOHHH!!! those strainers! not good! Like I mentioned, go through the whole back end. The steering clutches are pressed on the cross shaft, the steering clutches are bolted to flanges on the pinion gears which go into the finals, the seals are in the steering clutch housing/holders between the clutches and finals. Major work, get a service manual if you do it yourself.

my apology, I needed to think a little bit, comb some diagrams, etc. As I am mentally understanding right now, the "cross shaft" that apparently still has issues resides in a separate but connected housing behind the trans. The cross shaft is what connects power from the ring gear to the track clutches, which sit inside this housing, also filled with trans oil. So to see any carnage in there, I would want to pull the ROPS and tank. Just on a guess, if the bearings they just installed ate it again, much of that trash would be in the bottom of this housing but certainly end up at the bottom of the trans as well.

I could go for broke here but I think I'd like to see in there just to know how bad things are in there before trying to flip the switch.

What I am hoping is since the trans filters are reasonably clean, and there are two massive filters, maybe the trans could be saved or at least there is not metal in every little orifice of everything.

As well, I did discover the TC charge pump and separate filter screen that I will try to get at tomorrow. They are both mounted to the TC directly.

Also, in the invoices, there was an issue with overheat and dealer found a plugged radiator, one belt off, and other was off the tensioner. So......yeah, I would say it got hot, which is not good. Not sure how well the 339 engine fairs in these conditions. But I am thinking this may have been the catalyst to trans cooler failure.

Rome wrote:

OOOHHH!!! those strainers! not good! Like I mentioned, go through the whole back end. The steering clutches are pressed on the cross shaft, the steering clutches are bolted to flanges on the pinion gears which go into the finals, the seals are in the steering clutch housing/holders between the clutches and finals. Major work, get a service manual if you do it yourself.

This is a gamble, BUT, I do not see anything in the invoices that the dealer even touched the filter screens when it was in with a known bad bearing.  I have the list of parts used, and I doubt the dealer would waste the time to clean them, especially in a failure.  I am not sure if I will either.  They also likely did not do any rinse of the trans after that.  So just doing a simple oil change may not have got it cleaned up.  

But it does seem likely that they screwed it up and the bearings are toast, and took at least one seal out.  

But here is a question, if that did occur, could this have damaged the actual track clutch?  It would seem "maybe" the internal line pressure system might be OK, but may have got contaminated oil in the clutch plates?  Or is it normal to see chunks of clutch in the strainer?  

I am saying this about the dealer because I have another "marvel" of theirs where they did a fresh rebuild on an engine, punched it 30 over, and installed STD size pistons!!!!!  No kidding!!  I don't trust their work.  

I cant see the bearings failing in such a short time providing they were properly adjusted on installation. Fibre material in the filters is most likely brake band material. Without seeing how the canopy is mounted, you should not have to remove it to access the rear end compartments, just the fuel tank, will be three covers under it. The two outer covers are steering clutch and brakes, middle cover is bevel gear. It is a very straight forward job to remove steering clutches, two rings od bolts on each and you lift them out with the brake band.

Oil transfer into the final drives is past the final drive pinion seal, it can be replaced after removal of steering clutch and steering clutch hub to pinion flange, I have removed pinion and flange as a unit on D8H, maybe also possible on D7E.

Best of luck, Wombat

Hmmm, well that dont sound good about the overheating issue either, you DONT want to overheat these D339's! If a belt was off the pulley then the tensioner is probably shot too, the rubber bushing will fail and the tensioner gets cocked and off come the belts, even new belts. This machine must have been beat and with allot of hours on it. Shouldn't see any chunks of steering clutch or transmission disc material. The steering clutches are probably well used up.