I love it when beer and tractor driving is mixed. But I have yet to try it myself. I agree with Niels because you really cant tell where anything is truely made any more. So who really gives a rats you know what. Just buy what ever you fell is the best thing out there. So long as it works and lasts.

Karl

I think that foreign manufacture is something that we all have to live with, both prior to this .. now .. and in the future.

Packrat complains about Cat supporting Toyota, and being un-American .. but you can guarantee that Cat and Toyota hold shares in each others companies, not only as investment .. but also as offset with regard to variations in currencies, market domination, and many other company considerations.

Cat have built manufacturing facilities in most civilised countries .. Australia, Japan, France, Spain, Brazil, Mexico, China .. etc etc .. and those operations are pumping $$$ into Cat coffers .. and therefore America, in many ways.

However, the problem is that those profits are not benefiting the working man in America, just looking for a job .. and I think that's a part of what got Packrat ranting.
A proportion of the Cat profits go to those lucky enough to have shareholdings in Cat .. and a large proportion goes to senior executives and CEO's .. much more so, than the working man, or the shareholders ..

In the case of American built products .. well, Toyota has invested heavily in American factories, just as Cat has invested heavily in factories in Japan.
It sort of balances out, on that basis, in that Toyota is providing jobs for American workers .. just as Cat is providing work for employees in Japan.

However, the imbalance comes when more and more manufacturing is shifted to China .. and China are not doing anything towards investing in manufacturing in America.

THAT is what I would call un-American .. the headlong rush by AMERICAN companies, led by greedy CEO's and senior executives .. to manufacture in a foreign country .. with no reciprocal agreements.

This can only serve to cause unbalance and discord in the long run, as the likes of China runs up huge US$ surpluses .. and the bottom line is going to be a reduction in value .. and buying power .. of the almighty US$.
The value of the US$ is slowly sinking at present, and I cannot see any reason for it to regain the powerful position and value, it had, in the post WW2 to the early 1990's period .. while the current trend to manufacture everything in China continues.

Cat already have substantial investment in Chinese factories, and are rushing to substantially expand on that investment. When Cat have the majority of their parts made in China, and there is very little Chinese investment in American manufacturing job creation .. we have a bleak scenario indeed, for the working man in the U.S.

correct on all counts. I am in total agreement. I can maybe tough it thru the remainer of my generation but I am really concerned about my kids and their long term future.

The experts keep saying we in the US are becoming a "service industry"...
what worries me is, Who will we be serving?

I have been reading this thread with interest the last few days. It is really a coincidence that the front page of the Wall Street Journal's Feb 26th, third section, has an interview with the CEO of Caterpillar talking about global trade. The article reports Mr. Owens as a "Fervent Free Trade Advocate". If you can you might want to find a copy and read it or try this link: money.aol.com/news/articles/_a/global-tr...20070226122009990004
Good Luck
Biggastractor

I think there is a little too much fear of global trading. You couldn't afford a pencil if is wasn't for international trade. The lowly pencil is made up of numerous components from all over the world and the miracle of free markets allows thousands of people who don't even know of each other to cooperate to provide the pencil lead, the wax, the lumber, the metal for the ferrule, and the earaser. If you had to build your own from scatch- a pencil would cost a fortune. Even when a lot of products were American made, the raw materials came from outside the United States. It wasn't long ago that we were afraid the Japanese were going to take over everything but now the Japanese birth rate is so low that the Japanese can't even maintain their toy industry without trying to sell to senior citizens. Protectionist laws on trade had a lot to do with creating the great depression.

a pencil is only a minor aspect of international manufactoring, lets take the case of steel quality! Just received a sandblaster canister from harbor freight and made in china--a minimal toque on the hose clamps broke them! the bolts and nuts had to be forced to tighten--china steel does not even match our astm 307, A36, let alone A242 or A588 stell. yes it is cheap but there is no quality there.
came accross the same situation on high strenth steel cables for prestress concrete beams--even though it was certified to 270K psi ultimate strenght we were popping strands quite often--had to make sure we took cover behind the live end steel barricade--rewrote the spec to us steel only-main supplier florida wire and cable--and never broke another strand!

I used the pencil because it's a famous example of the working of trade and free markets. The issue of quality is a different subject. I have encountered both shoddy U.S. made products and very good foreign made ones. Someone was obviously not making the proper price verses value comparison with the steel you had to use. I have a John Deere tractor that has a Japanse engine and saw that the Korean made Montana tractor has a John Deere engine. We now live in a much more complicated world.