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The ubiquitous What's it Worth post...

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3 years 3 months ago #228928 by Toolslinger2
Mornin' folks... 

I posted about this Cat a dozen years ago here (long enough ago that my user name and password don't work)... Got some info, and then ran in to a wall with my parents/the owners... Never convinced them to either repair it or sell it.  While I think it would be nice to get it repaired, the reality is, I don't need it, and someone will enjoy it more than me.  I've got enough equipment to fix, and maintain already.

So... We've got a D2, with a blade... Yea, I know I need more info than that... I need a little help on where to look to confirm things.  Our Parts Catalog has 5U7375 listed as the serial number.  I can't say if that book is original to the machine, but it came to us with it back in the 70's, so there's a good chance.  Where would I find the SN on the machine?  I found the patent info data plate, and it sure would be logical for a machine tag to be right there too, but I didn't see any evidence there was ever one there.  

The folks had to do a head gasket back when we got it.  After that, we used it cutting a small logging road, and really that was about it.  The steering brakes/clutches are either shot, or frozen.  So it got parked in the barn, and run out every few years since then.  I'll be getting it running in a couple weeks again to run it out of the barn, and I'd prefer not to put it back in there.  So, it'll be for sale as soon as I can make that happen, and confirm the SN, and get whatever additional info people would want, plus photos naturally.  

So, now the question (finally, right?).  Assuming it's a 5U, and generally in good shape, apart from the steering clutches, and brakes, what might one hope to sell one for?  We're in Eastern PA, not too far north of Allentown, if location is a factor...
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3 years 3 months ago #228929 by neil
Hi Toolslinger, you can find the serial number plate on the left rear side of the main engine, just below where the cylinder head sits. There is another tag on the rear face of the transmission housing, above the hitch. In both those locations, the number is also stamped into the block/housing behind the plate so if the plate is missing, you can rub the area between the two rivet holes to find the number.
One more piece of information to help gauge the price is the condition of the undercarriage. The rail wear (3" new, 2.75 100% worn), grouser height, rollers, idlers, and sprockets. But generally, since the tractor runs but doesn't steer/stop, I'd guesstimate a bit north of scrap value. The reason for that guesstimate is that D2s are fairly common but less so on the East Coast than the West, and on the East Coast they're usually in worse condition (such as stuck steering), and that there's not a lot of people looking for them. So if scrap is say 250/ton, and your tractor weighs 4 tons, scrap would get you 1000, but since yours runs, maybe 1500. If it steered and stopped ok, and the undercarriage was say 50%, then you might get 3k. Of course, it also depends on how much a prospective buyer wants it. I've defintely overpaid for my D2s : ) so there's that factor. Does it have any extras like electric pony start or electric main engine start, lights, hydraulics, blade, belly pan and hook, winch, belt pulley, cab, etc. Those will all help make it more attractive.

Cheers,
Neil

Pittsford, NY

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3 years 3 months ago #228931 by Toolslinger2
Thanks for that Neil, I'll see what I can find when I'm out there again...

I remember my uncle commenting that the undercarriage was like new. He was an equipment operator, so it's likely pretty good. We sure didn't wear it out. He's still out there, and will be helping me deal with this, so I can pick his brain still. All that said, I never looked at it other than the sprockets, and I recall they looked pretty good... Would you define what the "Rail" is specifically, so I know what I'm looking to measure?

Blade is hydraulic lift. I believe it has some ability to angle, but that would just be moving parts/pins or bolts... Nothing really handy, but it's there if memory serves.

Pony is 6v start. Battery was dead when I pulled it last weekend, so I left that out there for my uncle to see if it would take a charge... I sure don't feel like playing the pull start game with the pony. I'll steal a battery from one of the 8N's if I have to.

It has a belly pan, with the usual collection of crud in there... Rather is was clean, but that is what it is. Perhaps I'll pressure wash it out once it sees daylight, if it looks like I can do so without injecting water in anything that wouldn't want it... I have a vague memory of a hook under there, but I haven't looked in ages. (it's in a dark barn, and my father has stuff piled here and there that makes getting at things difficult to say the least)

No winch, no cab/canopy.

I'd hate to see it go to scrap, but I'm realistic about it... They should have never bought it, and once they did, they should have just got it fixed 40 years ago, or sold it... Hazards of dealing with a hoarder...

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3 years 3 months ago #228933 by Toolslinger
Ahhh... Much better.... Back to the original login... Not that it actually matters...

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3 years 3 months ago #228935 by neil
Sounds good. The rails are the "chains" that the tracks are made of. The height from the underside of the grouser plate / pad (the flat piece attached the rail that rests on the ground) to the bottom of the rail when new will be 3". It has 1/4" of hardening so 100% worn is 2 3/4" high. If the rails are 0 to say 75% worn, then they're in good condition. If they're 0% worn, then they're new and that's very desirable. The rollers, sprockets, idlers, and grousers all wear too of course but they're a lot easier to recondition than rails are so are less of a factor in pricing. Blade will make it more like 5 tons. Electric start pony is good, especially on an earlier model D2 if it's 5U 7375. If you can start it with a 6v battery, then you'll hopefully avoid toasting the charging circuit. A lot of folks start with 12v but I'd be nervous about the generator and regulator once the main engine was running. I have a 6v Optima battery in mine and it starts it just fine. If the existing 6v battery doesn't have enough juice, you can still start it with 12 v and then once the pony is running, re-attach the 6v battery so that when/if the main engine starts, at least the generator is working with the correct battery. It's no big deal to swap out the batteries after the pony is running and while the main is cranking or not even turning. Photos are good, and a video of the main engine running is even better

Cheers,
Neil

Pittsford, NY
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3 years 3 months ago #228937 by Toolslinger2
Oh, cranking on 6v is no issue. I've got 2 8N's to pull batteries from, and if that doesn't do it, a monster 6v from our '48 Diamond T... It always fired up on 6v... (well not when we got it, I dunno what the issue was then, but I do remember that damn rope...) I see countless people converting 8N's to 12v, and I just don't see why. 6v works just fine if you keep everything the way it should be... Plus those 6v batts just don't seem to leak down the way 12's do...

Thanks for the rail info. I'll see what I've got.

And yea, video of it running for sure... My GF sold her 63 Fairlane, and it always was a good runner... Until the potential buyers would try to start it, and flood it. Like clockwork... Don't know if people were trying to come up with something to run down the price, or what, but the video goes a long way...

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3 years 3 months ago #228938 by Ray54
A friend put it you need the recipe of what different engines like in the way of starting. Cat pony motors being some of the most fussy about choke and throttle settings. But spinning a pony on 12v does wonders on some, that bit of extra speed.

But many automotive pieces with the early auto choke days also had some things they like just so. As to how many pumps of the throttle and how many seconds to crank, before pumping more................or not at all.

Good luck finding loving forever home for this little kitty. I think Neil has got it right about the worth. Fixing steering is a good amount of sweat and probably money too. But we all hope to just chase the rust out and parts will be good, but generally needs parts.

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3 years 3 months ago #228945 by neil
Since you're selling, I wouldn't put any $ into fixing the steering beyond the standard "overheat the brakes" technique and pull with another tractor, but for what it's worth, to replace all the steering in my 5U cost about 1k. I did replace almost every single part; inner and outer drums, steering discs, brake shoes, bearings, and various sundry parts. I needed a 20t hollow ram puller to remove the parts but outside of that, no special tools. I think most tractors would be in way better shape than mine which on the inside looked like it had been in the sea for 10 years.... If you're not familiar, the "overheat the brake drum" technique is where you drive it around or tow it with another tractor while standing on the brakes as hard as you can with the goal of getting them as hot as possible (i.e. smoke coming out of the backend). The idea is to cook the rust and/or adhesion so that when you start stabbing the brakes while driving under power with the steering lever pulled back, the shock combined with the cooking is enough to free the clutch. I've managed it once but others have had more luck.
If you have time, it's not a bad step to take because if they do free up, then the tractor instantly becomes a lot more valuable.

Cheers,
Neil

Pittsford, NY
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3 years 3 months ago #228961 by trainzkid88
there is only one honest answer. what the buyer is willing to pay and the seller receive. if it runs drives and steers its worth a lot more than a machine that dont. each thing in its favour adds value.

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3 years 2 months ago #229446 by Toolslinger2
Thanks for the info folks.

She's out of the barn now. No spark on the pony, and the main clutch is now stuck, so not going to be able to start it. It'll go as is, or go to scrap.
I've got it listed on Craigslist. I'll be posting in the for sale here too. SN was correct.

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