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Inherited a CAT D8 - Need Help

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4 years 4 months ago #217885 by fredk
Any idea what time you'll be arriving, roughly?

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4 years 4 months ago #217924 by neil
Replied by neil on topic Inherited a CAT D8 - Need Help
I'm guessing around noon. I can call when we are a half hour out if you want?

Edb - if the fuel level is down, say quarter of a tank, will we be able to successfully bleed the injection system and the torque convertor if necessary?

Cheers,
Neil

Pittsford, NY

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4 years 4 months ago #217953 by fredk
Replied by fredk on topic fuel & oil
fuel is at about 35%

oil is about an inch and a quarter below full

pony oil is about an inch and a half over full

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4 years 4 months ago #217964 by edb
Replied by edb on topic Fuel Tank level
Hi Neil,
if the system is still charged you will be good to go, however if it is well down in the T/C then you may be running a bit short--kinda six of one, or a half a dozen of the other so to speak--50--50.

Note
I added the correct data on the T/C drain line leakage rate to my post above and will do so here again-basically says that 6 to 10 drops per minute with T/C cold from either the front or rear seal drain tube--

NOTE the front and rear T/C shaft seal drain tubes are teed together so what you see leaking is both seals combined--if leakage is excessive then separate the tees to see which seal is at fault--

NOTE seals and seal rings etc. for these may not be available, they are refrigeration style carbon face seals and we used to hold a set at The Dealer for exchange after we had them lapped at a refrigeration compressor repair company here local--likely not around now too.
If the the leakage is bad and resulting ground contamination not acceptable OM posted a recovery system that you would have to build would work--likely better to do this than dismantle the unit and never be able to rebuild it--water laden fuel is the enemy of these things--caused from condensation in the fuel tank over night as the hot fuel that has been returned from the cooler and the air above it in the tank cools and draws in moisture laden night air. It helps to ALWAYS refill the fuel tank after usage.

Most of this has been posted recently for 14A, 15A and 35A D8's. Advanced Search should find them--lots of good reading if you are interested.

This linked thread has OM's recovery system scans.

www.acmoc.org/bb/showthread.php?33388-Qu...ght=question+for+edb

Cheers,
Eddie B.

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4 years 4 months ago #217987 by neil
Replied by neil on topic Inherited a CAT D8 - Need Help
Sounds like we need a few gallons of main engine oil Fred. When the engine is at rest, the level should be above the full line. Pony sounds ok but if you're heading to the store anyway, you could get a couple of gallons of regular 30 engine from Tractor Supply or similar. We should probably change it unless it looks clean. If there's an opportunity to get the fuel truck up there, it'd be good to get more fuel in it since the torque convertor situation is unknown, but if not, we'll try with what you have. I'm guessing the tank holds 100 gallons (someone will correct me) so you might have 35 in there. If you can fill it, that would be ideal.

That's great info thanks Eddie. If I understand correctly, we should check/bleed the t/c before the injection system, if either is necessary. Or would you recommend just attempting a start first. My reading of the instructions say that if there is a minor amount of air in the t/c, it will purge itself after a few minutes.

Cheers,
Neil

Pittsford, NY

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4 years 4 months ago #217989 by Old Magnet
Diesel tank holds 134 gallons.

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4 years 4 months ago #218009 by edb
Replied by edb on topic Fuel Tank level
Hi Neil,
seeing there is fuel in the tank the fuel would keep a head on the fuel system that is below the fuel level--still you would most likely OK to try the T/C and go from there.

Strongly suggest that you check--drain the tank sediment tap for water before you try anything--even before re-filling with fuel so you do not mix any water, crud, etc. with your new fuel.

As said above, water in the fuel tank from condensation is the worst enemy of the Injection and T/C charge systems.
The system filters need constant maintenance to keep them clean and dry of moisture.

Cheers,
Eddie B.

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4 years 4 months ago #218024 by neil
Replied by neil on topic Inherited a CAT D8 - Need Help
Righto sounds good Eddie, will do. I forgot to ask before whether the pony has the shared oil system or is standalone, and if shared, if there are any special precautions to take. One I will be taking is to take the hornet spray.....

Cheers,
Neil

Pittsford, NY

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4 years 4 months ago #218038 by edb
Replied by edb on topic Pony Oil
Hi Neil,
there have been a few times in Cat history where new models came out with a shared lube system. Each time it was quickly found to be detrimental to the pony due to sludge or failed main engine components sending crud into the pony and so a Kit came out to blank off the main engine supply to the pony--new crop of Engineers I guess, making same mistakes as previous crew.
My thinking for the shared system was to keep a supply of oil going to the pony crank bearings to maybe help reduce the likely hood of fretting between a dry crank and bearings during long hours of main operation???

I believe that there were Cat Programs to blank off the main supply to the pony. One would look for a 1/4" copper line coming from the main engine to the pony if a shared system was still operational--

Scan below is a Product Bulletin September 14 1960, that covers the separation of the two lube systems on Many machines.
Also is a pic of the tube and boss highlighted by Red Arrow on a 17A D7 where the combined lube system oil came from the main to the pony -- D8/D342 engine will/should have same style tube and boss.
Scan for excerpt from OMI on separate lube systems for 46A1-up --

Search may find that this subject has been covered before and where I saved the D7 engine pic from that someone kindly put up at the time.

Cheers,
Eddie B.
Attachments:

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4 years 4 months ago #218110 by neil
Replied by neil on topic Inherited a CAT D8 - Need Help
Norm and I visited Fred's place yesterday and checked the tractor over. It appears in generally good condition. The rollers have wear and best I can estimate are down 1/8 from the radius at the side. The rails are right on 5" if someone could please restate that in % worn. The sprocket segments are new. The grousers have been built up and are in good condition.
Norm drained the sediment and maybe an ounce or two of water from the main fuel tank, while I checked the pony.

Unfortunately the last person to run the pony threw a rod in it. The pony starter would not roll over the engine so I removed the clutch adjustment cover and the spark plugs, and was able to roll the pony crank backwards. The back piston moved. I hit the pony starter button momentarily and the pony turned over then stopped with a clunk. There are no smoke relief holes in the pony block so the best case is that only a rod let go and the rest is intact.

How it got into this state is another example of where a lack of knowledge and intuition can lead to problems. Someone removed the throttle and choke control rods, and installed the choke control rod into the throttle rod position, presumably to control the pony rpm. In doing this, the governor control rod was removed from the throttle. I suspect that this led to an over-rpm situation and hence the thrown rod. A competent mechanic familiar with governors would know that this would require very careful manual control of the throttle and erring on the side of low rpm.

In other areas, the underside of the main engine oil fill cap showed no sign of condensation and there are no obvious oil leaks on the machine, including from the finals. The oil was down the stick about an inch and a half - the oil could stand changing. The coolant was full and bright green. All the gauges were intact. The pony fuel valve was replaced by an elbow so there's no current way to shut the fuel off. The light switch was stuck but I didn't see any lights anywhere on the machine - maybe the gauges have lights? The torque convertor bleeder was slightly open and dry. I didn't open it right up to see if any diesel would flow.

The powershift control level would not move, even with the safety off - Eddie, should it be able to move through the gears with the engine not running?

The cutting edges looked new, the blade skin has been patched and there's a small hole in the lower corner that needs a patch. The blade joints looked reasonably tight. The blade has manual tilt arms which do move.

So, to get the tractor going, the pony needs the thrown rod and whatever else in there is broken repaired/replaced. The basic sequence that I could see to remove the pony is:
1. Drain the coolant - how many gallons?
2. Remove the mag and carb for safety purposes
3. Remove the two coolant pipes
4. Remove the main exhaust pipe
5. Remove the hood
6. Remove the main engine air cleaner and the pony air cleaner
7. Attach lifting eyes to a couple of pony head bolts (I think there is a lifting jig description on the forum)
8. Carefully bar the pony and transmission forward away from the main engine flywheel housing. As it comes forward, tilt the pony up to clear the filter assemblies.

Question - there is a 2" diameter pipe that looks like a coolant (or fuel) pipe that runs alongside the pony. Does that have to be removed to remove the pony? It is not solidly fixed in place so has a bit of movement available.

I've offered to Fred if he can get the pony to me, I'll fix it. I think the only way that tractor will be sold off the property is if it is running, because the only other feasible option (outside of taking another D8 up there to drag it on to a lowboy) is to see off parts. In that case, Fred will inevitably be left with a carcass that for sure will never move unless scrap turns to gold.

Cheers,
Neil

Pittsford, NY

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