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D8H 46A steering clutch seals issue

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4 years 6 months ago #213687 by Old Magnet
I'm thinking something has happened to the splined fit to where you don't have the 0.125" +/-0.031 spacing required between the splined shaft and the washer shown. Could be due to wear or split hub. This would allow the seal ring to be to close to the edge resulting in leakage. Otherwise the seal rings should accommodate sealing.
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4 years 6 months ago #213714 by edb
Hi Team,
found a photocopy of a Special Release Serv. Mag. (July 6 1976) titled "Reconditioning Eight Speed Powershift Transmissions" that has the needed data for seal ring fitment.

It is imperative that the seal rings sit below the carrier groove surface during assembly as it is easy to cut/break the seal rings and/or break off the hooks due to their reduced section.
Also ensure that the seal ring grooves and the speedy sleeve repaired bore surfaces are highly polished and not burred or rough in any way so that excessive does not occur to the plastic seal rings.

Scans below describe how to grip the ring in and away from the hooked ends and how to curve the rings for even curvature.
This article is not as in depth as the original Service Magazine released January 19 1973 or Product Bulletin January 29 1972.

OM,
after a sleep the penny has dropped--a speedy sleeve will not repair a seal ring groove--only the outer running bore--Thanks.

Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Eddie B.
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4 years 6 months ago #213717 by Old Magnet
What do you do about the oil flow holes? Punching holes in the speedy sleeve seems problematic. Also you'd be running on the speedy sleeve ID instead of the usual OD if that even works???

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4 years 6 months ago #213726 by edb
Replied by edb on topic Seal Ring Bore Diameter
Hi OM,
the cage bore would need to be machined out to accept a reverse speedy sleeve-- that I doubt exist--OP said he used one-- you and I are not sure about that!!

At the Dealer I am sure our machinist simply machined the cage bore and fitted a suitable sized and material Dealer shop made sleeve, inserted it with loc-tite and maybe scotch keys, cut oil passages with bridges to support inner seal ring running bore sleeve section--align scotch keys to bridges--if used--fit using cage heating and sleeve freezing to fit sleeve and bore and polish to size--all fairly standard reclamation procedures if the cage bore wall is thick enough to safely do so. Alternative is to find new/good used cages.

The OP's actual stated repair of using a speedy-sleeve to repair the bore is iffy to both you and I--we would like more info on how this was done.

The repair maybe resulted in an oversized bore thereby causing the seal ring hooks to have no gap and so be fully extended and the outer surface of the seal ring not yet toughing the bore--as described in the scans above if the bores are worn oversized.

The mystery deepens.

Cheers,
Eddie B.

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4 years 6 months ago #213728 by Wombat
This is testing my memory of a job I did to my 46A over 30 years ago. The nylon piston seal ring had worn a slight groove into the bore, so I had a machinist ever so lightly trim the bore, there was still slight evidence of the wear after the machining. Upon reassembly the clutch did not want to disengage for about 20 minutes, then it finally started working and did so for a long time , was still working some years later when I sold the tractor. i think sometimes it may take a while for the oil to force the ring out against the bore and seal.

Just my 0.05 cents worth.

Wombat

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4 years 6 months ago #213744 by Old Magnet
I'm thinking that do to it leaking before and after repairs that something else is going on....or repairs were not correct.

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4 years 6 months ago #213774 by edb
Replied by edb on topic Cracks
Hi Team,
depending if they can see where the pressure oil is leaking-squirting from I would suspect a cracked cage in the supply tube area or less likely the actual seal ring bore, or if the bore is oversized such that the seal ring hooks are out of travel and so the oil cannot expand them further.
The oil gets under the rings and expands them even though they are below the groove surface.
Also suspect would be a the supply tube having a split down its length or the O Ring ferrule is not welded properly to the tube or is cracked at the ferrule to tube weld joint area.
If the tube is distorted and the ferrule is not square in its bore the O Ring may leak/rupture--also if the ferrule has been fretting in its cage bore the O Ring may have been cut on assembly--the cage to tube ferrule bore may need sleeving too if it is worn.

Any leakage from the inner dummy piston or the outer piston seal rings will dump into the steer clutch, also I believe any leakage due to loss of correct placement of the bevel shaft to the steer clutch flange, as OM points out in Post #11, should not show at the bevel shaft cage to steer clutch flange area as described by the OP.

Without eyeballing the unit or maybe a video of the leakage area and type of flow it is hard to come up with much else at this time.

Refereing back to Wombats observation of it taking some time--several operations -- before the seals achieve a positive immediate seal is not something I have come across but I can visualize this being so--usually any I did we had to drive out of the shop before we could make a turn and test them outside to save verbal abuse from those in the shop.

Cheers,
Eddie B.

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4 years 5 months ago #214676 by Wes Fehr
Replied by Wes Fehr on topic Sealing Issue resolved
Hi everyone, sorry for the late response. We ended up removing the bearing cage and hub again. We found that there was some slight wear on the cage again from the hub. So one issue was not enough preload on the bevel shaft. Seals however were not damaged. I had the cage redone again with a speedy sleeve, and yes we machined the oil porting into it as well. I also had the hub spun in the lathe to clean up the seal ring grooves, as we found that in certain spots the seal could hangup if turned just right. Didn’t seam smooth enough. After spinning the hub and cleaning the grooves the seals were loose and free. Reinstalled everything rechecked the preload on the Bevel shaft again, ran a pressure test on the steering clutch before we reinstalled the brake booster so we could see how it was working. Worked like a charm! We have been running the dozer again since and have cleared about 40 acres of bush already. 👍👍. Thanks for all the advice much appreciated!

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4 years 5 months ago #214687 by Old Magnet
Thanks for the feed back, glad to hear your good to go.

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4 years 5 months ago #214708 by edb
Replied by edb on topic Thanks For Feedback
Hi Wes,
as OM said, it is nice to get feed back to see if the info given was helpful and helps the next person trouble shoot a similar issue down the line.
Cheers,
Eddie B.

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